Damon pissed off Taylor Swift and all of her fans

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JackS
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Re: Damon pissed off Taylor Swift and all of her fans

Post by JackS » 25 Jan 2022, 12:52

I suspect he's trying to draw the distinction between the professional co-writing / hit-making industry, and co-writing with other musicians.

There is clearly a difference between Taylor 'co-writing' with Max Martin, and Billie co-writing with her brother.

For example - Coldplay 'co-wrote' their latest album with Max Martin and knew exactly what they were getting.

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Re: Damon pissed off Taylor Swift and all of her fans

Post by MsMagicAmerica » 25 Jan 2022, 14:36

idreamofpikas wrote:
25 Jan 2022, 11:57
MsMagicAmerica wrote:
25 Jan 2022, 05:10
But she's still a songwriter.

What I don't get is why in his mind she's not one because she co=writes and yet in his mind Billie Ellish is even though she co-writes with her brother (which he even stated in the interview).

If he doesn't like her music, that's fine, but don't be a dick about it.
How was he being a dick? He was asked a question about Swift and gave an honest answer.
Maybe he was wrong about her not being a songwriter, but looking at her credits the vast majority of them were co-written with someone else. My bet is that Damon had primarily heard about her Max Martin association and based his opinion on that.
Because he gives the impression that he's putting her down because she co-writes songs. He asked the interviewer to name him a modern musician who is not relying on sound and attitude. When the interviewer says Taylor Swift is is an excellent songwriter he replies by saying she doesn't write her own songs and that co-writing doesn't count That's a put down. And it's not true. As many have mentioned she writes some songs with others and some by herself. Which is just like Damon.

He should have just said that he didn't know much about her songwriting or that her music isn't to his taste and left it. Instead he says that she doesn't count then in the the same paragraph he says "A really interesting songwriter is Billie Eilish and her brother." So he gives an example of a co-writing team as a really interesting songwriter.

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Re: Damon pissed off Taylor Swift and all of her fans

Post by jonathas » 25 Jan 2022, 16:32

I liked it best when Damon just banged on about how much he loved The Cardiacs

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Re: Damon pissed off Taylor Swift and all of her fans

Post by idreamofpikas » 25 Jan 2022, 17:00

MsMagicAmerica wrote:
25 Jan 2022, 14:36


Because he gives the impression that he's putting her down because she co-writes songs.
I expect this from Taylor fans, but Blur/Damon fans? How many interviews in the last few years has Damon talked of his love of collaboration. How many songs of his own feature co-writers.

Perhaps Damon does not think it the dirty accusation some of you do.


Taylor co-writes her songs, or at least the songs she is most well known for. It is not a crime. The same is true of Damon and the majority of his most famous songs. Do you think if Taylor was asked about Damon and said the same things he did?

I've never seen an artist who loves playing the victim as much as Swift whether is it her ex's, the record label, Kanye or now Damon.

It was a mild criticism but now giving that is going to be less likely from artists because of her toxic fanbase. They are as bad as the kop stans.

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Re: Damon pissed off Taylor Swift and all of her fans

Post by dougharrison » 25 Jan 2022, 17:20

idreamofpikas wrote:
25 Jan 2022, 17:00
MsMagicAmerica wrote:
25 Jan 2022, 14:36


Because he gives the impression that he's putting her down because she co-writes songs.

Perhaps Damon does not think it the dirty accusation some of you do.


It was a mild criticism but now giving that is going to be less likely from artists because of her toxic fanbase. They are as bad as the kop stans.
You seem to accept yourself it was a criticism?

I think the phrase "That doesn't count" in response to get being suggested as an "excellent songwriter" (not something I have an opinion on) can definitely be considered in the realms of a "dirty accusation"

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Re: Damon pissed off Taylor Swift and all of her fans

Post by idreamofpikas » 25 Jan 2022, 17:46

dougharrison wrote:
25 Jan 2022, 17:20
idreamofpikas wrote:
25 Jan 2022, 17:00
MsMagicAmerica wrote:
25 Jan 2022, 14:36


Because he gives the impression that he's putting her down because she co-writes songs.

Perhaps Damon does not think it the dirty accusation some of you do.


It was a mild criticism but now giving that is going to be less likely from artists because of her toxic fanbase. They are as bad as the kop stans.
You seem to accept yourself it was a criticism?

I think the phrase "That doesn't count" in response to get being suggested as an "excellent songwriter" (not something I have an opinion on) can definitely be considered in the realms of a "dirty accusation"
No. He said he preferred Billie's music to Taylor's. That would be were the criticism comes in, the comparison of Taylor's upbeat music to Billie's odd, darker music. But he literally refers to Billie as exceptional despite pointing out that she is part of a songwriting team.

Her being a co-songwriter is not a criticism, it's just a fact. The fact that it needed to be framed to say 'she does not write her own songs' rather than what Damon actually said 'she does not writer her songs by herself' tells its own story.

If what Damon said was so bad then Taylor and her insane Twitter fanbase would not have had to reframe it.

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Re: Damon pissed off Taylor Swift and all of her fans

Post by dougharrison » 25 Jan 2022, 18:11

idreamofpikas wrote:
25 Jan 2022, 17:46
dougharrison wrote:
25 Jan 2022, 17:20
idreamofpikas wrote:
25 Jan 2022, 17:00



Perhaps Damon does not think it the dirty accusation some of you do.


It was a mild criticism but now giving that is going to be less likely from artists because of her toxic fanbase. They are as bad as the kop stans.
You seem to accept yourself it was a criticism?

I think the phrase "That doesn't count" in response to get being suggested as an "excellent songwriter" (not something I have an opinion on) can definitely be considered in the realms of a "dirty accusation"
No. He said he preferred Billie's music to Taylor's. That would be were the criticism comes in, the comparison of Taylor's upbeat music to Billie's odd, darker music. But he literally refers to Billie as exceptional despite pointing out that she is part of a songwriting team.

Her being a co-songwriter is not a criticism, it's just a fact. The fact that it needed to be framed to say 'she does not write her own songs' rather than what Damon actually said 'she does not writer her songs by herself' tells its own story.

If what Damon said was so bad then Taylor and her insane Twitter fanbase would not have had to reframe it.
Apologies, I misunderstood you about the mild criticism part.

However I think it's hard to suggest the following isn't condescending, and there's plenty of scope for Damon to not have caused the issue, here's how the LA Times, who ran the original interview as I understand, reported it...

She may not be to your taste, but Taylor Swift is an excellent songwriter.
She doesn’t write her own songs.

Of course she does. Co-writes some of them.
That doesn’t count.

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Re: Damon pissed off Taylor Swift and all of her fans

Post by idreamofpikas » 25 Jan 2022, 18:34

dougharrison wrote:
25 Jan 2022, 18:11


Apologies, I misunderstood you about the mild criticism part.

However I think it's hard to suggest the following isn't condescending, and there's plenty of scope for Damon to not have caused the issue, here's how the LA Times, who ran the original interview as I understand, reported it...

She may not be to your taste, but Taylor Swift is an excellent songwriter.
She doesn’t write her own songs.

Of course she does. Co-writes some of them.
That doesn’t count.
Replace Taylor with Elton John. The same applies. Elton is not a songwriter, he's part of a songwriting team. It seems weird to ignore Taupin's name and just refer to Elton as the songwriter.

Maybe Damon is mainly going off the 3 Swift albums that featured Max Martin and is not informed on her larger career, or maybe he's more informed and knows about Liz Rose and the Nathan Chapman's heavy lifting on her earlier albums. Or maybe he did not think Twitter and Taylor Swift would overreact to an interview he gave which would have only been read by a few thousand people if not for the clickbait title.

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Re: Damon pissed off Taylor Swift and all of her fans

Post by MsMagicAmerica » 25 Jan 2022, 18:57

idreamofpikas wrote:
25 Jan 2022, 17:00
MsMagicAmerica wrote:
25 Jan 2022, 14:36


Because he gives the impression that he's putting her down because she co-writes songs.
I expect this from Taylor fans, but Blur/Damon fans?
I’m not going to back him up and say that he is correct when he says things that are wrong just because I’m a fan of his.

And even if I were going to defend him in this situation, I wouldn’t bash Taylor Swift. She just defended herself. If I were on her shoes, I’d correct him.

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Re: Damon pissed off Taylor Swift and all of her fans

Post by aldamasta » 26 Jan 2022, 04:13

I'm so ready for this story to blow over. Damon came across as a grump, but in reality it's no big deal. Twitter is gonna Twitter.

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Re: Damon pissed off Taylor Swift and all of her fans

Post by idreamofpikas » 26 Jan 2022, 08:40

MsMagicAmerica wrote:
25 Jan 2022, 18:57

I’m not going to back him up and say that he is correct when he says things that are wrong just because I’m a fan of his.
How was he wrong?

"
That doesn’t count. I know what co-writing is. Co-writing is very different to writing. I’m not hating on anybody, I’m just saying there’s a big difference between a songwriter and a songwriter who co-writes. Doesn’t mean that the outcome can’t be really great."
That is pretty much true. He does not claim there is something wrong with co-writing, just that its not the same as songwriting. I don't know how anyone who knows her discography could argue that she does not cowrite her songs. The journalist brings up Taylor and it is the journalist who claims that she only co-writes 'some of them'.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_(Tay ... ck_listing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reputatio ... ck_listing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lover_(al ... ck_listing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folklore_ ... ck_listing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evermore_ ... ck_listing

Two songs from her last 5 albums are not cowritten.

Better yet, replace the names in the quote with Damon and the members of Radiohead


He may not be to your taste, but Damon Albarn from Blur is an excellent songwriter.
He doesn’t write his own songs.

Of course he does. Co-writes some of them.
That doesn’t count. I know what co-writing is. Co-writing is very different to writing. I’m not hating on anybody, I’m just saying there’s a big difference between a songwriter and a songwriter who co-writes. Doesn’t mean that the outcome can’t be really great. And some of the greatest singers — I mean, Ella Fitzgerald never wrote a song in her life. When I sing, I have to close my eyes and just be in there. I suppose I’m a traditionalist in that sense. A really interesting songwriter is Thome Yorke and his bandmates. I’m more attracted to that than to Blur. It’s just darker — less endlessly upbeat. Way more minor and odd. I think they are exceptional.
Would we be getting mad if Graham, Alex and Dave were no longer mentioned as being cowriters of the like of Tender, Beatlebum, Song 2, Girls and Boys etc.

Damon's making two points. 1) That she collaborates. He stresses that there is nothing wrong with this, and when you have read interviews on his last two albums he is constantly stressing the people he wrote with. and 2) That Taylor's music is not for him, it is too upbeat compared to another artists



MsMagicAmerica wrote:
25 Jan 2022, 18:57
And even if I were going to defend him in this situation, I wouldn’t bash Taylor Swift. She just defended herself. If I were on her shoes, I’d correct him.
She could defend herself by actually reacting to what he said. That she co-writes her songs. Instead, she took his words and claimed he said that she did not writer her own songs when he's saying she did not write them by herself.

Because she has the larger platform her truth becomes the accepted truth. It is mental.

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Re: Damon pissed off Taylor Swift and all of her fans

Post by Foggy » 26 Jan 2022, 09:15

I just think it's funny Damon has a bee in his bonnet about cheerful songs when he put Ong Ong on the last album.

It's all overblown, but in essense as good as Taylor Swift at writing and performing tunes with huge mass appeal she's not reinventing the wheel. What Eilish does is much more interesting musically.

Really, comparing Swift and Eilish is a bit like comparing Blur and Oasis.

:twisted:
☰ ☱ ☲ ☳ ☴ ☵ ☶ ☷

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Re: Damon pissed off Taylor Swift and all of her fans

Post by jonathas » 26 Jan 2022, 11:13

Interesting (and I think, right) thread from the lovely Pete Paphides on this today:

https://twitter.com/petepaphides/status ... 5326134273

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Re: Damon pissed off Taylor Swift and all of her fans

Post by stephen » 26 Jan 2022, 11:39

Ergh, He's not come out looking very good on this one.

Taylor Swift's branding is massively about that she writes her own songs (didn't she recently rerecord her back catalogue so she got more of the royalties), so for him to single her out is a bit bizarre and probably lacks a bit of self awareness.

Maybe he was jet lagged or not prepared for the interview, I think he's trying to raise a good point but has just done a very bad job on it. I think this is the reason he doesn't like talking to the media much.

I think maybe if it was about ghost writers than that would have been a better angle, but to use taylor swift is truly bizarre and wrong

Of course it could have been a PR stunt but the apology doesn't appear so as that's also poorly worded

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Re: Damon pissed off Taylor Swift and all of her fans

Post by dougharrison » 26 Jan 2022, 11:46

jonathas wrote:
26 Jan 2022, 11:13
Interesting (and I think, right) thread from the lovely Pete Paphides on this today:

https://twitter.com/petepaphides/status ... 5326134273
Actually I think that's by some distance the best thing I've read on the whole situation. Thanks for sharing

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