Damon Albarn - The Nearer the Fountain, More Pure the Stream Flows

Discussion about the band and related projects.

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dougharrison
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Re: Damon Albarn - The Nearer the Fountain, More Pure the Stream Flows

Post by dougharrison » 06 Dec 2021, 13:41

jonathas wrote:
06 Dec 2021, 12:39
At the risk of sounding like I am very much part of a different generation, and in doing so not meaning to disrespect younger people, this seems a useful illustration of just how much has changed since the 90s in terms of people's ideas around behaviour. To be honest, I didn't even know that Blur had teenage fans anymore (much less a "fandom" - are we part of the fandom??), but what's fascinating is the amount of moral complexity which exists these days. Old notions of innocent until proven guilty have been replaced with a 'believe-the-victim' policy (which I understand and sympathise with). Traditional ideas of consent have been challenged by age disparities and power imbalances. Monogomy and adultery are increasingly public, rather than private, concepts. And there is a clear expectation that people should be held publicly accountable for their actions and misdeeds. And tellingly, you can see, repeatedly, an overwhelming sense of vulnerability in the face of repeat patterns of male behaviour. I saw one young teenager speculate that "all four" members of Blur likely have "credible rape cases brewing". (This way of thinking is madness). Whether the allegations against Graham have any validity or not, it's clear that there's been a complete collapse of trust between fans and artists. It's a sorry situation.
Very little to add here, other than to praise a very good post.

I think these situations do lead me to feel that the principle of innocent until proven guilty needs to prevail, although I can understand why that is problematic in cases of sexual abuse, domestic violence and other crimes where victims tend not to report for fear of not being believed.

That somebody with presumably no direct contact with all 4 members of Blur or an independent link to 4 potential victims is free to 'speculate that "all four" members of Blur likely have "credible rape cases brewing" ' with no reprisal in the case of false accusations doesn't sit well with me on an ethical level - regardless of being Blur or anybody else.

Ian_D
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Re: Damon Albarn - The Nearer the Fountain, More Pure the Stream Flows

Post by Ian_D » 06 Dec 2021, 15:20

I feel slightly grubby for having read this thread and then having gone to investigate what it was about (and then not going very far with that). I think I agree that unless it's news it probably isn't news and it's best left in the dark corners of the internet unless/until something real happens.

I sort of assume by now that those who are in bands have probably done things that may not have happened if they had been working at an accountancy firm, however good their official public image is. And many of them may look back on it when they get older and think "that was a bit off wasn't it? Still that was then and this is now". But that doesn't mean it didn't happen.

So separation of art and artist can still be a good thing.

idreamofpikas
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Re: Damon Albarn - The Nearer the Fountain, More Pure the Stream Flows

Post by idreamofpikas » 06 Dec 2021, 15:33

jonathas wrote:
06 Dec 2021, 12:39
At the risk of sounding like I am very much part of a different generation, and in doing so not meaning to disrespect younger people, this seems a useful illustration of just how much has changed since the 90s in terms of people's ideas around behaviour. To be honest, I didn't even know that Blur had teenage fans anymore (much less a "fandom" - are we part of the fandom??), but what's fascinating is the amount of moral complexity which exists these days. Old notions of innocent until proven guilty have been replaced with a 'believe-the-victim' policy (which I understand and sympathise with). Traditional ideas of consent have been challenged by age disparities and power imbalances. Monogomy and adultery are increasingly public, rather than private, concepts. And there is a clear expectation that people should be held publicly accountable for their actions and misdeeds. And tellingly, you can see, repeatedly, an overwhelming sense of vulnerability in the face of repeat patterns of male behaviour. I saw one young teenager speculate that "all four" members of Blur likely have "credible rape cases brewing". (This way of thinking is madness). Whether the allegations against Graham have any validity or not, it's clear that there's been a complete collapse of trust between fans and artists. It's a sorry situation.
The great thing about social media is that it gives everyone a voice, but it's also its greatest flaw as the only way to stand out from the billions of other people on the planet is to be as loud as possible. So people arguing that Graham may have done a dumb thing/inappropriate action are drowned out by the louder voices condemning him as being no better than Epstein, worse in some cases.

It is one of the reasons why words like racist or nazi have lost all meaning because they are used so freely by social media users who want their opinions to be noticed and the only way to do so is being as extreme as possible.

What I have learnt is that people who ignore the claims against them are more likely to survive than the people who feel the need to apologize or explain themselves. Epstein had claims against him for more than a decade, people knew what Jimmy Saville was up to for decades and they just ignored them until the authorities and major newspapers gave legitimacy to the claims. Graham's silence will make him look guilty to some of his biggest fans, but once he speaks out he's going to be look guilty to a lot more people. People who did not know his name before will assume his guilt simply due to headlines online/in a paper article.

jonathas
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Re: Damon Albarn - The Nearer the Fountain, More Pure the Stream Flows

Post by jonathas » 06 Dec 2021, 15:56

Unfortunately, accusations also tend to attract more attention than being absolved. Lots of press ran with the story of claims against Bob Dylan a couple of months ago and it turned out the woman making the accusation was unstable and had a long track record, not only of making outlandish claims but of trying to convince other people that Dylan had abused them and they'd hidden the memories. I have not seen one proper retraction from any of the newspapers who ran with the original story, alas.

So of course it would make no sense for GC to engage, at now at least. Should the accusations become more credible, that might change, I guess.

Ian, your point about artists reflecting in their advanced years on prior behaviour is a really good one. The older I get, the harder it becomes to write people off on the basis of their behaviour alone. Now I'm in my mid-40s I have friends who have made terrible lapses of judgement, friends who have wandered guilessly into messes of their own making, friends who have redeemed earlier moments of selfishness with wonderful generosity and loyalty. Some of these people are great parents, brave artists, lovely idiots. I'm not much better than the worst of them. But I do remember as well what it's like to be 16 and think everything is clear and clean and on moral issues we should be hard and inflexible. It's a muddle.

Neal Zeal
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Re: Damon Albarn - The Nearer the Fountain, More Pure the Stream Flows

Post by Neal Zeal » 06 Dec 2021, 16:10

Should all these comments not be in a separate thread?
Not really directly relevant to Damon's new album...

jonathas
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Re: Damon Albarn - The Nearer the Fountain, More Pure the Stream Flows

Post by jonathas » 06 Dec 2021, 16:12

Probably. But I suspect no-one is champing at the bit to create a specific thread about the subject, given that most of us thus far seem to agree that waiting and seeing is a better policy than stirring the pot.

Neal Zeal
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Re: Damon Albarn - The Nearer the Fountain, More Pure the Stream Flows

Post by Neal Zeal » 06 Dec 2021, 16:36

jonathas wrote:
06 Dec 2021, 16:12
Probably. But I suspect no-one is champing at the bit to create a specific thread about the subject, given that most of us thus far seem to agree that waiting and seeing is a better policy than stirring the pot.
Yep, a fair point.

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rich
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Re: Damon Albarn - The Nearer the Fountain, More Pure the Stream Flows

Post by rich » 06 Dec 2021, 17:19

Neal Zeal wrote:
06 Dec 2021, 16:36
jonathas wrote:
06 Dec 2021, 16:12
Probably. But I suspect no-one is champing at the bit to create a specific thread about the subject, given that most of us thus far seem to agree that waiting and seeing is a better policy than stirring the pot.
Yep, a fair point.
Best kept here untitled...

And let's get back to Damon!

I managed to get a ticket for next weeks Union Chapel gig - will be interesting to see where the setlist has got to by then!
I put me trousers on, have a cup of tea, and think about leaving the house...
my gig videos https://vimeo.com/user19376405

Neal Zeal
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Re: Damon Albarn - The Nearer the Fountain, More Pure the Stream Flows

Post by Neal Zeal » 06 Dec 2021, 17:29

rich wrote:
06 Dec 2021, 17:19
Neal Zeal wrote:
06 Dec 2021, 16:36
jonathas wrote:
06 Dec 2021, 16:12
Probably. But I suspect no-one is champing at the bit to create a specific thread about the subject, given that most of us thus far seem to agree that waiting and seeing is a better policy than stirring the pot.
Yep, a fair point.
Best kept here untitled...

And let's get back to Damon!

I managed to get a ticket for next weeks Union Chapel gig - will be interesting to see where the setlist has got to by then!
You managed to? At the time they were released or more recently?
I've been checking Gumtree every day!

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rich
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Re: Damon Albarn - The Nearer the Fountain, More Pure the Stream Flows

Post by rich » 06 Dec 2021, 17:45

no, it was the day it was announced I think...
*checks emails* - I got my ticket on 15 November :)
I put me trousers on, have a cup of tea, and think about leaving the house...
my gig videos https://vimeo.com/user19376405

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daii
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Re: Damon Albarn - The Nearer the Fountain, More Pure the Stream Flows

Post by daii » 07 Dec 2021, 12:07

rich wrote:
06 Dec 2021, 17:19
I managed to get a ticket for next weeks Union Chapel gig - will be interesting to see where the setlist has got to by then!
for the look of this by next week is gonna be a blur gig :mrgreen: https://twitter.com/Pudsey77/status/1468131701067063296

vitekm
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Re: Damon Albarn - The Nearer the Fountain, More Pure the Stream Flows

Post by vitekm » 07 Dec 2021, 18:32

I'm sad that the topic (see above) got through here at all. It's the work of trolls, the "stories of the victims" so unreal, fabricated and ridiculous that only a fool can trust them. Calling for a statement is like asking Graham to lower himself on one level ground with these people. These people are also very aggressive, which I experienced myself. And one girl who disputed the claims on Reddit was chased and harassed so badly that she wanted to kill herself.

The only real thing is the rape joke of January 1996 (almost 26 years ago), when such "black humor" was commonly used and accepted across popular culture.

Before someone accuses me of making Graham an angel. We all know he fought alcoholism for years. And the very essence of alcoholism is that such a person sometimes does not behave well. Again, only a fool could think that there can be such a thing as a "perfect guy who coincidentally is also an alcoholic."

Finally, one of the funny moments of the whole situation: the girl who repeatedly chased Graham on Twitter to watch some her animations, even suspended (in her reaction to the cause) one of those "Graham Coxon pic every hour" bot at Twitter :lol: The limits of human stupidity are truly limitless.

semi
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Re: Damon Albarn - The Nearer the Fountain, More Pure the Stream Flows

Post by semi » 08 Dec 2021, 08:28

It's incredible that half of Damon's setlist in the latests gigs are blur songs. No gorillaz, no tgbatq, no everyday robots

John_d
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Re: Damon Albarn - The Nearer the Fountain, More Pure the Stream Flows

Post by John_d » 08 Dec 2021, 09:35

semi wrote:
08 Dec 2021, 08:28
It's incredible that half of Damon's setlist in the latests gigs are blur songs. No gorillaz, no tgbatq, no everyday robots
I was at the Glasgow show, it was really great and a different experience. Someone in the audience (maybe a few people, it was so loud and clear) sang Graham's "switched off the machines" part in Under the Westway - that raised the roof :lol:
He said he didn't want to talk much as he wanted to play as many songs as possible in the time available. I assume he agreed to the tour on the basis of him only having to be onstage for an hour at a time.
Maybe he thinks the Blur songs sound best in this context. I would have loved to hear NDLTR, but you can't be greedy. "Darkness to Light" was absolutely beautiful. And Beetlebum, what a fabulous song.

John_d
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Re: Damon Albarn - The Nearer the Fountain, More Pure the Stream Flows

Post by John_d » 08 Dec 2021, 09:41

vitekm wrote:
07 Dec 2021, 18:32
I'm sad that the topic (see above) got through here at all. It's the work of trolls, the "stories of the victims" so unreal, fabricated and ridiculous that only a fool can trust them. Calling for a statement is like asking Graham to lower himself on one level ground with these people. These people are also very aggressive, which I experienced myself. And one girl who disputed the claims on Reddit was chased and harassed so badly that she wanted to kill herself.

The only real thing is the rape joke of January 1996 (almost 26 years ago), when such "black humor" was commonly used and accepted across popular culture.

Before someone accuses me of making Graham an angel. We all know he fought alcoholism for years. And the very essence of alcoholism is that such a person sometimes does not behave well. Again, only a fool could think that there can be such a thing as a "perfect guy who coincidentally is also an alcoholic."

Finally, one of the funny moments of the whole situation: the girl who repeatedly chased Graham on Twitter to watch some her animations, even suspended (in her reaction to the cause) one of those "Graham Coxon pic every hour" bot at Twitter :lol: The limits of human stupidity are truly limitless.
Good points. Especially the alcoholism one. Poor decisions will inevitably have been made. Hopefully not to anything like the extent being claimed.

Amongst the accusations is the suggestion he has never stopped drinking. Listening to him on the recent "Blank" podcast, I don't think that's fair or correct.

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